I look back and it was good fun at Pucka, mostly, all sorts of, in our hut we had a fellow that killed two men in a brawl at Werribee and the judge had given him two years gaol or two years nasho and he was a tough man.
We had fellows who were married. It was the first time, being middle class, that I met a sort of person that I'd never met before. Totally amoral, just a different, for the country, just a different sort of person altogether and we were all in there together and when I look back, I find it amazing.
One of the skills that national service gave me was the ability to mix with people and to get on because you just had to, so it was ... and we had a lot of men from Western Australia and they all looked more grown up than me, they all looked bigger than me, they all looked, in my perception, they all looked more mature than me but, yeah, I was in the hut with men who were married and had kids.
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