Department of Veterans' Affairs
Transcript
Joining the Polish Brigade
I was doing national service when the war broke out in Poland in '39 and from Poland, after Poland was conquered by the Russians and Germans together. The war broke out on the 1st of September when the Germans invaded.
On the 17th of September the Russians invaded as well so the war was finished by the 1st October and I went to Hungary from Poland and from Hungary I went to France. There was a Polish unit, a motorised unit established in France in Coëtquidan.
Bloody French capitulated themselves and there I was, I came on there, and there I was so they wanted to intern us but one way or another we had no business, we were not going to surrender so I went from France to Algiers and from Algiers to Egypt where the Polish Carpathian Brigade was formed. Well, really it was formed in Syria but when the Syrians were come and supporting the Vichy government the Poles left it and came to Palestine to Latrun.
When they decided that the Australians government wanted the Aussies back to Australia, well he said, "Who else are we going to send in there, we've got nobody to spare. Let's send the Poles." So that's how we went.
Adequate supplies
You take it this way, 6,400 Poles went to Tobruk, now you know that the supply of those things, the supply of food, ammunition, all that, it was coming by night by boats but there was no shortage of things, as I said, there could have been more drinking water but apart from that…
Oh! Bully beef. Bully beef and biscuits, yeah, I don't think that we were really hungry, I mean sometimes the food didn't arrive on time but it did arrive. I don't think you had time to think about food too much.
Controlling No Man's Land
We inherited from the Australians that No Man’s Land between the Germans, Italians, and us that we had to control that, and we did and that I think saved Tobruk, you know, we knew more about the in between land, No Man’s Land, than they did. Sometimes during the day you established where there was a machine gun was or something like that and that night you go and get him and sometimes, we succeeded sometimes.
Skinny dipping
Daily rounds every day the same sort of thing, you know, I told you, my wife asked me "How did you bathe?"
I said, "Oh, every ten days." She said, "You must have stunk?"
No, we thought it was normal, that Tobruk stunk like that and she said, "Well, how did you wash?"
"Well, when we were off the red line," I said, "we'd go into the sea and have a swim."
And she said, "Did you have bathers?" And I said, "Oh God, what's wrong with skinny dip?"
Taking prisoners
During the salient, we took some German's POW, three or four, you know. You have to be very careful, you know, people are sometimes very, not frightened, but "Bloody Germans, kill them." Sort of.
You don't do that because in one hour, we were there a few hours, in one hour, well perhaps in two hours, that post where I was in, changed hands three times, eventually, the Germans did come out prisoners but I'm glad nobody shot at them or we would not have survived it either. So there you are, you know, that's how life goes.
Breakout from Tobruk
Well we did as well as the Aussies did or we think we did as well as the Aussies did. We hang on to Tobruk until the breakout and after the breakout came on the 8th of December, we chased Rommel back to Gazala. We feel that, well personally that we did a good job. During the breakout, that was a very hair-raising job. We could hear that, because the Germans were in a position in there, they had the machine guns set that way and we couldn’t move bloody forwards or backwards and we could hear the Australians, Kiwis mostly, because we knew there were Kiwis, and after the third day, it lasted for three days and on the third day we succeeded to join hands with the Kiwis and the Australians as well. I don’t know which unit of the Australians it was but we chased Rommel and his lot for about 180 kilometres and then we were withdrawn from the front and we didn’t take part until the invasion of Italy.
Fighting in Europe
There was about 50,000 Poles in the invasion of Italy so we went to Napoli… and of course you have heard of the Battle of Monte Cassino well that was one of the Polish’s bigger contributions had and, of course, the biggest losses too and after that I was withdrawn from Italy and I went from Poland [sic] to England and instructed an armoured brigade for the invasion and war in Europe. Yeah, so we had another Polish Brigade take part in D-Day plus 5. We went to beach, Juno Beach, Sword Beach, yeah, and there was already Canadians and Montgomery was, of course, commanding that. After that, I proceeded as far as Holland to a place called…in Holland and the war finished when we were in…
Two types of hero
The army teaches you many things and I think you use many of those things, well it teaches you control of your, the people who are working under you. You can't bully people under you, you have to lead. I found that was a lot easier and that you had a lot more respect if you led the people, it doesn't matter how frightened you were, you know.
The heroes are this way in my opinion. You are a hero if you are looking at mate and you say, "You rotten bastard, you shot my mate" and you jump out and shoot him if you can or he'll shoot you and that's one of the heroic things that you do or otherwise you say "I think I've got a chance and that's one under the spell of the moment, revenge, you know, and the other calculated. The calculated one is better."
Ticket to Australia
We thought we would go back to Poland. We didn’t know that the communists took over Poland and the horrible repressions and the deportation of Poles to Russia and all that especially those Poles that returned, a number of Poles returned to Poland from England and they disappeared. They disappeared. Some came back, two or three escaped but I was very grateful. Well, I got a letter from my mother she said, "Finish your study before you come back to Poland". I wasn’t studying anything and she knew it very well, so, what it meant, you know, don’t come back so I didn’t and I’m grateful that I didn’t otherwise I’d most probably end digging salt somewhere in Russia. Yes, and that’s how we came to, the Australian government extended the privilege of the Poles to come, you know because they were Rats of Tobruk and here we came. See, I left Poland in 1939. By the time 1950 came and I was here in Australia I didn’t want to go back to Poland, you know. I had established, and another thing was I was an Aussie here and what would I do there? And another thing is I didn’t know where I would start in Poland. We were, well, put it this way, having a common estate in Poland I would have returned to Poland because we had some land like not a great deal, but sufficient to keep us well economically, so I most probably would have gone to Poland but that’s how it is. But I am glad that I actually didn’t.
Proud to be a rat
A great deal, a very great deal, you know. It means that we did well, that we contributed to the defeat of the Nazi supremacy or their self-imposed supremacy. Oh yes, to me it means a great deal, I am real proud to be a rat of Tobruk.
